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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 13, 2019 22:33:45 GMT -6
Fair questions, and BTW I'm loving this discussion with you and Raptor. Truly, this is really cool stuff.
Sooo
1. What is he hamstrung with? What couldn't he do?
2. You can do a Captain Marvel style simple origin to get people into what happened to them to gain powers, IN FACT, we never really saw how any of the 4 Defenders got their powers outside of short flashbacks anyway. I honestly don't see any problem there.
It's all good man, were just having fun. Putting aside all of the simulations and thought experiments, there is one extremely compelling reason for Kevin to break with the Netflix shows. It is irrefutable and it is DIRECTLY connected to the fate of Disney Corporation. Netflix and Disney are now direct competitors in the streaming wars. Their rivalry is such that neither can afford to create any reason for consumers to refer to their competitor's offering. Even a tangential connection between Disney+, Marvel Studios, Marvel Television, and Netflix is a nonstarter. You can bet your last money, that is how Iger sees it. You can't give the consumer any reason to subscribe to a competitor or go back to a competitor to brush up on anything. As such, people who never saw Daredevil would be deprived of knowing and understanding the character fully on Disney+. There's no reason to create the extra cognitive overhead of having to remember events about two different iterations of a character across two different streaming services. The best way to do approach this from a business perspective is to develop all-new iterations that divorce themselves from competitor offerings. Fans will be heartbroken but, if Disney+ can create newer better versions of what came before, consumers will happily view the Netflix shows as a fledgling experiment in connectivity. Oh I see how it is. Going to use a flawless logical unassailable argument aye? Welllllllllllll,,,
Ok, I was going to say I slept with your mom, but I'll just give you full credit for a well stated argument sir.
Truth be told, I was about to say if I had to put $5 bucks on it, I'd say they totally reboot anyway, but you really hit the nail on the head.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 13, 2019 22:35:23 GMT -6
Ohhhh,, I see. Yeah I never really got on that boat. I thought maybe they'd do a little cameo with them, but I never found it important whether they did or not. It would have been an awesome moment, but I wasn't really expecting it. So I could see how we'd feel a little differently about this. It's kind of the reason I always talk about not hoping for specific things to happen. Just let it play out and it's harder to end up disappointed. There's another reason to be disappointed by the lack of connectivity. If they're not going to cross over, then they should fill some kind of gap that gets missed like when The Avengers are dissolved thanks to The Accords. I can't think of a single time we were shown what the effects of The Avengers being gone had on the world in the Netflix shows, and apparently they've decided to cover that in the movies as well. So basically, they have a bunch of shows that never once crossed over with the movies, nor did those shows add another insight to the films from an outsider's perspective on the street level. In essence, they're natter, and if I was some future viewer of the MCU not yet born, I know I'd just bypass them completely. I get it.
Personally, I don't really think that matters much, but I do get it.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 13, 2019 22:37:58 GMT -6
In all honesty the only thing I would bring to the film's from the Netflix shows would be Vincent as Kingpin and Charlie as Daredevil. I'm fine rebooting the other stuff. Ditto. But bringing them on might invite a return on Perlmutter's part, because I'm SURE he has some kind of contract in place that would give him sway in their hop over to the films from start to finish. I love how Feige just ran Perlmutter out of town. That guy must have a dart board in his basement with Kevin's face on it. |
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Aug 13, 2019 22:39:51 GMT -6
There's another reason to be disappointed by the lack of connectivity. If they're not going to cross over, then they should fill some kind of gap that gets missed like when The Avengers are dissolved thanks to The Accords. I can't think of a single time we were shown what the effects of The Avengers being gone had on the world in the Netflix shows, and apparently they've decided to cover that in the movies as well. So basically, they have a bunch of shows that never once crossed over with the movies, nor did those shows add another insight to the films from an outsider's perspective on the street level. In essence, they're natter, and if I was some future viewer of the MCU not yet born, I know I'd just bypass them completely. I get it.
Personally, I don't really think that matters much, but I do get it.
I think it'll matter to whoever is in charge of "re-airing" them someday. I would not anticipate seeing them often in the future unless you were quick to snatch up the DVDs. |
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Aug 13, 2019 22:40:27 GMT -6
Ditto. But bringing them on might invite a return on Perlmutter's part, because I'm SURE he has some kind of contract in place that would give him sway in their hop over to the films from start to finish. I love how Feige just ran Perlmutter out of town. That guy must have a dart board in his basement with Kevin's face on it. He actually just might. That's the funny and scary thing. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 13, 2019 22:46:03 GMT -6
I get it.
Personally, I don't really think that matters much, but I do get it.
I think it'll matter to whoever is in charge of "re-airing" them someday. I would not anticipate seeing them often in the future unless you were quick to snatch up the DVDs. Probably true. I'm just ok with having peripheral shows not be about the main stuff going on. It's like in your own life you have stories about one friend that have nothing to do with other people in your life, and yet you can find both people important and interesting. I just don't understand why everybody in the universe has to be dealing with things relevant to other people in the universe. Know what I mean? |
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Aug 13, 2019 22:58:19 GMT -6
I think it'll matter to whoever is in charge of "re-airing" them someday. I would not anticipate seeing them often in the future unless you were quick to snatch up the DVDs. Probably true. I'm just ok with having peripheral shows not be about the main stuff going on. It's like in your own life you have stories about one friend that have nothing to do with other people in your life, and yet you can find both people important and interesting. I just don't understand why everybody in the universe has to be dealing with things relevant to other people in the universe. Know what I mean? That would be fine if it was just SOME of the shows that existed entirely on the periphery. Thing is, the films always hype up the incidents involving The Avengers as these grand, sweeping things that will have global ramifications even down the street level, where the Netflix cast lives. So right off the bat, it undermines what the films are saying. Bare minimal, Daredevil, Jessica, and Luke should have been dealing with people who bought alien weapons from Adriene Toomes. There should have been an increase in illegal activity on the streets of New York with The Avengers no longer operating. Hell, there should have been a Season of each show that took place somewhere in the 5 year gap between the prologue of "Endgame" and the rest of "Endgame". |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 13, 2019 23:03:46 GMT -6
Probably true. I'm just ok with having peripheral shows not be about the main stuff going on. It's like in your own life you have stories about one friend that have nothing to do with other people in your life, and yet you can find both people important and interesting. I just don't understand why everybody in the universe has to be dealing with things relevant to other people in the universe. Know what I mean? That would be fine if it was just SOME of the shows that existed entirely on the periphery. Thing is, the films always hype up the incidents involving The Avengers as these grand, sweeping things that will have global ramifications even down the street level, where the Netflix cast lives. So right off the bat, it undermines what the films are saying. Bare minimal, Daredevil, Jessica, and Luke should have been dealing with people who bought alien weapons from Adriene Toomes. There should have been an increase in illegal activity on the streets of New York with The Avengers no longer operating. Hell, there should have been a Season of each show that took place somewhere in the 5 year gap between the prologue of "Endgame" and the rest of "Endgame". I really do get it, but
Maybe they were doing those things, they just did the show about the stuff they did in between those events.
I always keep in mind that we aren't seeing every moment of their lives.
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Aug 13, 2019 23:12:32 GMT -6
That would be fine if it was just SOME of the shows that existed entirely on the periphery. Thing is, the films always hype up the incidents involving The Avengers as these grand, sweeping things that will have global ramifications even down the street level, where the Netflix cast lives. So right off the bat, it undermines what the films are saying. Bare minimal, Daredevil, Jessica, and Luke should have been dealing with people who bought alien weapons from Adriene Toomes. There should have been an increase in illegal activity on the streets of New York with The Avengers no longer operating. Hell, there should have been a Season of each show that took place somewhere in the 5 year gap between the prologue of "Endgame" and the rest of "Endgame". I really do get it, but
Maybe they were doing those things, they just did the show about the stuff they did in between those events.
I always keep in mind that we aren't seeing every moment of their lives.
I do not accept that explanation. The films and the shows have to be fully integrated. I will not accept "fully integrated in words only". |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 13, 2019 23:16:01 GMT -6
I really do get it, but
Maybe they were doing those things, they just did the show about the stuff they did in between those events.
I always keep in mind that we aren't seeing every moment of their lives.
I do not accept that explanation. The films and the shows have to be fully integrated. I will not accept "fully integrated in words only". That's where we differ. I don't think they need to be integrated at all. That's why I brought up different people in your life who don't know each other. They still live in the same universe and both are still important to you, and their lives not being integrated doesn't make them less important to you. |
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Aug 13, 2019 23:32:49 GMT -6
I do not accept that explanation. The films and the shows have to be fully integrated. I will not accept "fully integrated in words only". That's where we differ. I don't think they need to be integrated at all. That's why I brought up different people in your life who don't know each other. They still live in the same universe and both are still important to you, and their lives not being integrated doesn't make them less important to you. The Kingpin is as much Spider-Man's enemy as he is Daredevil's, and if the MCU was as unified as it should be, the next Spider-Man film could have seen Charlie Cox's Daredevil as Peter Parker's lawyer, but that is not even a remote possibility now. I am not okay with being robbed off ever seeing Vincent D'Onofrio's Fisk going up against Holland's Spider-Man or of seeing Cox's Daredevil defend the wall-crawler in court following his identity being outed. Why should we be robbed of these fascinating possibilities? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 13, 2019 23:44:29 GMT -6
That's where we differ. I don't think they need to be integrated at all. That's why I brought up different people in your life who don't know each other. They still live in the same universe and both are still important to you, and their lives not being integrated doesn't make them less important to you. The Kingpin is as much Spider-Man's enemy as he is Daredevil's, and if the MCU was as unified as it should be, the next Spider-Man film could have seen Charlie Cox's Daredevil as Peter Parker's lawyer, but that is not even a remote possibility now. I am not okay with being robbed off ever seeing Vincent D'Onofrio's Fisk going up against Holland's Spider-Man or of seeing Cox's Daredevil defend the wall-crawler in court following his identity being outed. Why should we be robbed of these fascinating possibilities? My instinct is to say, because this is about as 1st world problem as 1st world problems get? :-) lol
But seriously, sure that would have definitely been amazing, it's just that there is always going to be some level of not being able to get everything we wanted. Just think how fortunate we are that they actually have all the characters back at this point at all.
So I can live with no Charlie Cox DD meeting Spidey because I'm just as cool with somebody else's DD meeting him, and somebody else's Fisk.
What we can look forward to is a whole set of shows that will be tightly connected, so we're going to end up with a little bit of both styles, and that really excites me.
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Aug 13, 2019 23:56:37 GMT -6
The Kingpin is as much Spider-Man's enemy as he is Daredevil's, and if the MCU was as unified as it should be, the next Spider-Man film could have seen Charlie Cox's Daredevil as Peter Parker's lawyer, but that is not even a remote possibility now. I am not okay with being robbed off ever seeing Vincent D'Onofrio's Fisk going up against Holland's Spider-Man or of seeing Cox's Daredevil defend the wall-crawler in court following his identity being outed. Why should we be robbed of these fascinating possibilities? My instinct is to say, because this is about as 1st world problem as 1st world problems get? :-) lol
But seriously, sure that would have definitely been amazing, it's just that there is always going to be some level of not being able to get everything we wanted. Just think how fortunate we are that they actually have all the characters back at this point at all.
So I can live with no Charlie Cox DD meeting Spidey because I'm just as cool with somebody else's DD meeting him, and somebody else's Fisk.
What we can look forward to is a whole set of shows that will be tightly connected, so we're going to end up with a little bit of both styles, and that really excites me.
Fine. Fair enough. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 10:29:45 GMT -6
Another indication that Marvel Studios is not planning to respect the Netflix shows as connected canon is that they are slowly poaching former Netflix actors for newer big-screen films. Mahershala Ali is a prime example, and now Ben Barnes is rumored for Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 14, 2019 11:41:54 GMT -6
Another indication that Marvel Studios is not planning to respect the Netflix shows as connected canon is that they are slowly pouching former Netflix actors for newer big-screen films. Mahershala Ali is a prime example, and now Ben Barnes is rumored for Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness. BTW I totally agree with you guys that they will hard break from the Netflix shows. |
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