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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 15:33:26 GMT -6
To me its also no big deal.
Villains are like aunts
They come in all shapes and sizes.
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Post by hauntedknight87 on Jan 1, 2019 15:41:44 GMT -6
Also The Punisher signature Skull has recently been used by the radical right-wing groups, this may be Marvel way of saying "We do not support these fuck heads"
Personally i have no problem Frank Castle killing White nationalist.
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Jan 1, 2019 16:15:44 GMT -6
Also The Punisher signature Skull has recently been used by the radical right-wing groups, this may be Marvel way of saying "We do not support these fuck heads" Personally i have no problem Frank Castle killing White nationalist. Neither do I as long as they don't try to make it look like all Republicans and people of faith are white nationalists. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 12:13:01 GMT -6
There are so many great Punisher villains to choose from but instead they're trying to be political so they can appear "woke", hopefully its handled fine because if they go out and pretty much say that all Christians and republicans/conservatives are bad people they will for sure go broke in many viewers' minds. As a die-hard Punisher fan, I wish that were true but, it isn't. Most Punisher villains that aren't also common to another superheroe's rogues gallery (e.g., Daken, Kingpin, and Bullseye) are borderline shit. Rawlins, Barracutta, the Russian, NYPD, the Gnucci's and Bushwacker are all sort of one-dimensional caricatures of villains. They're either hyper violent or woefully buffoonish, they only ever challenge Frank with their raw ferocity and bloodlust. Few of them match Frank's surgical precision with strategy and commitment to his cause (Jigsaw may be an exception to this rule). When you critically examine the Punisher's rogues gallery over the last two decades, you might find that Micro (In The Beginning) The US Army, The US Marines, CIA and Nicky Cavella are the best recent Punisher villains. Just my two cents... |
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Jan 2, 2019 15:20:35 GMT -6
There are so many great Punisher villains to choose from but instead they're trying to be political so they can appear "woke", hopefully its handled fine because if they go out and pretty much say that all Christians and republicans/conservatives are bad people they will for sure go broke in many viewers' minds. As a die-hard Punisher fan, I wish that were true but, it isn't. Most Punisher villains that aren't also common to another superheroe's rogues gallery (e.g., Daken, Kingpin, and Bullseye) are borderline shit. Rawlins, Barracutta, the Russian, NYPD, the Gnucci's and Bushwacker are all sort of one-dimensional caricatures of villains. They either hyper violent or woefully baboonish, they only ever challenge Frank with their raw ferocity and bloodlust. Few of them match Frank's surgical precision with strategy and commitment to his cause (Jigsaw may be an exception to this rule). When you critically examine the Punisher's rogues gallery over the last two decades, you might find that Micro (In The Beginning) The US Army, The US Marines, CIA and Nicky Cavella are the best recent Punisher villains. Just my two cents... So Marvel Studios' solution to the problem was to invent a villain who'd offend and alienate half their audience? |
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Post by hauntedknight87 on Jan 2, 2019 16:38:40 GMT -6
There are so many great Punisher villains to choose from but instead they're trying to be political so they can appear "woke", hopefully its handled fine because if they go out and pretty much say that all Christians and republicans/conservatives are bad people they will for sure go broke in many viewers' minds. As a die-hard Punisher fan, I wish that were true but, it isn't. Most Punisher villains that aren't also common to another superheroe's rogues gallery (e.g., Daken, Kingpin, and Bullseye) are borderline shit. Rawlins, Barracutta, the Russian, NYPD, the Gnucci's and Bushwacker are all sort of one-dimensional caricatures of villains. They either hyper violent or woefully baboonish, they only ever challenge Frank with their raw ferocity and bloodlust. Few of them match Frank's surgical precision with strategy and commitment to his cause (Jigsaw may be an exception to this rule). When you critically examine the Punisher's rogues gallery over the last two decades, you might find that Micro (In The Beginning) The US Army, The US Marines, CIA and Nicky Cavella are the best recent Punisher villains. Just my two cents... I kinda agree with you. His rogue gallery is filled with some generic and sterotypical characters. But i do believe that a good writer/Show runner can make them better characters. Hell Jigsaw got a nice makeover in the show. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 16:43:39 GMT -6
As a die-hard Punisher fan, I wish that were true but, it isn't. Hell Jigsaw got a nice makeover in the show.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 19:16:59 GMT -6
As a die-hard Punisher fan, I wish that were true but, it isn't. Most Punisher villains that aren't also common to another superheroe's rogues gallery (e.g., Daken, Kingpin, and Bullseye) are borderline shit. Rawlins, Barracutta, the Russian, NYPD, the Gnucci's and Bushwacker are all sort of one-dimensional caricatures of villains. They either hyper violent or woefully baboonish, they only ever challenge Frank with their raw ferocity and bloodlust. Few of them match Frank's surgical precision with strategy and commitment to his cause (Jigsaw may be an exception to this rule). When you critically examine the Punisher's rogues gallery over the last two decades, you might find that Micro (In The Beginning) The US Army, The US Marines, CIA and Nicky Cavella are the best recent Punisher villains. Just my two cents... So Marvel Studios' solution to the problem was to invent a villain who'd offend and alienate half their audience? Fair point but, Frank has gone up against militia groups and ultra-nationalists in the comics so, it’s not completely unprecedented. I spent my late teens around a small but vocal segment of white nationalists—not to be confused with white supremacists. Believe it or not, most of them were law abiding, peace loving Americans who simply believe that the races should not mix or live amongst eachother. I don’t agree with their philosophies but, I defend their right to have them—to the death. That said, the ones who are not law abiding citizens, the ones who constantly cry for race war and mass exterminations, the ones who hurt people in the name of zealotry and hatred... they likely deserve every last bullet that Frank has to offer. |
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Jan 2, 2019 19:35:54 GMT -6
So Marvel Studios' solution to the problem was to invent a villain who'd offend and alienate half their audience? Fair point but, Frank has gone up against militia groups and ultra-nationalists in the comics so, it’s not completely unprecedented. I spent my late teens around a small but vocal segment of white nationalists—not to be confused with white supremacists. Believe it or not, most of them were law abiding, peace loving Americans who simply believe that the races should not mix or live amongst eachother. I don’t agree with their philosophies but, I defend their right to have them—to the death. That said, the ones who are not law abiding citizens, the ones who constantly cry for race war and mass exterminations, the ones who hurt people in the name of zealotry and hatred... they likely deserve every last bullet that Frank has to offer. Do you actually think "The Punisher" Season 2 will make that kind of distinction? I'm legitimately asking, not being incredulous of your statements. One thing I hope Marvel Studios keeps in mind is that Hillary's "basket of deplorables" statement was one of the things that sunk her campaign, because she failed to make a distinction between fanatics like the ones you described and your every day normal Republicans. If Marvel Studios fails to be very careful with this particular sheet of thin ice, they could end up with a wildfire of backlash from offended Ring-wingers and even the relatives of those offended Right-wingers and they may not be able to put it out. And boy, that was an odd meshing of analogies. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 19:59:38 GMT -6
Fair point but, Frank has gone up against militia groups and ultra-nationalists in the comics so, it’s not completely unprecedented. I spent my late teens around a small but vocal segment of white nationalists—not to be confused with white supremacists. Believe it or not, most of them were law abiding, peace loving Americans who simply believe that the races should not mix or live amongst eachother. I don’t agree with their philosophies but, I defend their right to have them—to the death. That said, the ones who are not law abiding citizens, the ones who constantly cry for race war and mass exterminations, the ones who hurt people in the name of zealotry and hatred... they likely deserve every last bullet that Frank has to offer. I'm legitimately asking, not being incredulous of your statements. One thing I hope Marvel Studios keeps in mind is that Hillary's "basket of deplorables" statement was one of the things that sunk her campaign, because she failed to make a distinction between fanatics like the ones you described and your every day normal Republicans. If Marvel Studios fails to be very careful with this particular sheet of thin ice, they could end up with a wildfire of backlash from offended Ring-wingers and even the relatives of those offended Right-wingers and they may not be able to put it out. And boy, that was an odd meshing of analogies. I hope they do make the distinction for their sake, man. The season probably won't be as divisive as you think. When it comes to how a militant faction or a marginalized segment of the population sees itself portrayed in media, sometimes it's not all about whether they win or lose in the ensuing skirmish. It's usually about how they are depicted overall. Was the fictional presentation faithful to their belief system? Did their message come across accurately? Case in point, some of the biggest fans of American History X are Neo-Nazis. I know this for a fact. Sure, Norton reneges on his fascist beliefs by the end of the film but, before that, he represented the cause well and, many of the shots he's in are romanticized and made to look almost heroic. If this Pilgrim character is charismatic enough and presents his side of the argument well, we might have a discourse instead of a slugfest. You never know. |
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Jan 2, 2019 20:01:17 GMT -6
Do you actually think "The Punisher" Season 2 will make that kind of distinction? I'm legitimately asking, not being incredulous of your statements. One thing I hope Marvel Studios keeps in mind is that Hillary's "basket of deplorables" statement was one of the things that sunk her campaign, because she failed to make a distinction between fanatics like the ones you described and your every day normal Republicans. If Marvel Studios fails to be very careful with this particular sheet of thin ice, they could end up with a wildfire of backlash from offended Ring-wingers and even the relatives of those offended Right-wingers and they may not be able to put it out. And boy, that was an odd meshing of analogies. I hope they do make the distinction for their sake, man. The season probably won't be as divisive as you think. When it comes to how a militant faction or a marginalized segment of the population sees itself portrayed in media, sometimes it's not all about whether they win or lose in the ensuing skirmish. It's usually about how they are depicted overall. Was the fictional presentation faithful to their belief system? Did their message come across accurately? Case in point, some of the biggest fans of American History X are Neo-Nazis. I know this for a fact. Sure, Norton reneges on his fascist beliefs by the end of the film but, before that, he represented the cause well and, many of the shots he's in are romanticized and made to look almost heroic. If this Pilgrim character is charismatic enough and presents his side of the argument well, we might have a discourse instead of a slugfest. You never know. So you're hoping for another Killmonger-level villain in Pilgrim. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 20:08:51 GMT -6
I hope they do make the distinction for their sake, man. The season probably won't be as divisive as you think. When it comes to how a militant faction or a marginalized segment of the population sees itself portrayed in media, sometimes it's not all about whether they win or lose in the ensuing skirmish. It's usually about how they are depicted overall. Was the fictional presentation faithful to their belief system? Did their message come across accurately? Case in point, some of the biggest fans of American History X are Neo-Nazis. I know this for a fact. Sure, Norton reneges on his fascist beliefs by the end of the film but, before that, he represented the cause well and, many of the shots he's in are romanticized and made to look almost heroic. If this Pilgrim character is charismatic enough and presents his side of the argument well, we might have a discourse instead of a slugfest. You never know. So you're hoping for another Killmonger-level villain in Pilgrim. I am. And I think Netflix, if anyone, could pull it off in this case. It depends on how far Pilgrim is willing to go to carry out his agenda and his reasoning behind it. We all like to see Frank kick the shit out of sociopaths and psychopaths. It's fun, easy and deeply rewarding if you believe in the triumph of good over evil. When Frank went up against the US Army and was forced to maim and kill service men, that was a lot more harder to stomach (even though the story mechanics justified it to a degree). |
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Post by WeirdRaptor on Jan 2, 2019 20:25:23 GMT -6
So you're hoping for another Killmonger-level villain in Pilgrim. I am. And I think Netflix, if anyone, could pull it off in this case. It depends on how far Pilgrim is willing to go to carry out his agenda and his reasoning behind it. We all like to see Frank kick the shit out of sociopaths and psychopaths. It's fun, easy and deeply rewarding if you believe in the triumph of good over evil. When Frank went up against the US Army and was forced to maim and kill service men, that was a lot more harder to stomach (even though the story mechanics justified it to a degree).Right, that would be a huge sticking point for you. Alright, I guess I can tolerate it, but only if they do a good job justifying it. |
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Post by hauntedknight87 on Feb 7, 2020 7:33:38 GMT -6
Sorry for bumping an old thread but now that Season 2 had been out for over a year how do you guys feel about the whole thing now?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 22:45:39 GMT -6
Sorry for bumping an old thread but now that Season 2 had been out for over a year how do you guys feel about the whole thing now? I think the alt-right angle was a bit overplayed in the marketing. Right, Left, Up or Down... those people had it coming and Frank obliged them. Great season... |
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